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Book, Fine and Sinker
Two years after Leeds Student first revealed that the University was collecting the highest number of library fines in the country, Leeds is still leading the way for the fourth year running.
In these four years the University has collected over £1 million in fines.
Last year alone, the University collected close to £350,000, more than double the amount taken by the University of Manchester. This is despite Leeds having 6,000 less students than its northern
counterpart.
All six members of the Student Executive have reacted angrily to the news with Education Officer Elliot Jebreel even booking a showdown meeting with library staff over the revelation.
Leeds Student can reveal that in that meeting Elliot will campaign for a ‘library fine amnesty day,’ where all current library fines are
cleared.
Elliot said: “Hard working students are being unfairly ripped-off by a library system that collects far too much.
“Whilst I accept that libraries should be able to fine students who don’t bring books back on time, the fine should be proportionate and capped and the University just seems to be on a runaway.”
A spokesperson for the University said: “Many institutions have large total fines, but far fewer students. It is important to note, too, that not all the fines come from our students.”
Although the University does not cap library fines, accounts are blocked at £30. At least 100 students now owe the maximum amount.
Leeds Student can also reveal that several students have been asked to pay £360.
A spokesperson for the library stressed that such a level of debt was ‘unusual’.
In the past, students have been temporarily refused a degree over unpaid library fees.
Students have already reacted angrily to the news, with some hinting that they won’t pay their library fines until something is done about costs.
The University attempted to calm students last night by insisting they were ‘investing heavily into online resources’ but gave no indication as to whether the fees would drop.
21 Responses to Book, Fine and Sinker
Leave a Reply
Joe Short
March 25, 2011 at 17:37
I was fined a pound for handing in a book 23 minutes late. My own fault. Done.
Jess
March 25, 2011 at 20:23
The Yorkshire-man of few words
Joe Bloggs
March 25, 2011 at 19:35
This article is a little short sighted!
So Leeds Student is trying to tell me that people shouldn’t be fined for keeping books that they should have returned! What a load of nonsense! If the fines are reduced, looked over, then people are going to abuse the system!
I hope Rory Anderson one day has to wait for a book to be returned for some work he is required to do and finds the person that already has the book decides that they can’t be bothered to return the book. Leaving Rory completely in the s***!!
Reading the article rather annoyed me and hence this comment.
Boe Joggs
March 26, 2011 at 00:42
Something tells me you’ve been hard pressed to find a book in the past become someones already got it out, tut tut, lesson to be learned for you is the early bird gets the first worm. Just think, if you got the book out first you could have bare lols while you withhold it knowing your landing your fellow students right in the shit if it’s for an essay, this may even lead to their marks suffering which in turn makes your brain look much superior, top job all round for you.
Joe Bloggs
March 26, 2011 at 00:52
You might think that, but that isn’t the case. All of the literature i have ever needed and will ever need is online.
The stupidity of some people in this world occasionally annoys me. The people trying to fight the library fines and the person that wrote this article are one of those occasions.
Sweet Tooth Jimmy
March 26, 2011 at 13:48
Joe Bloggs is wrong, Boe Joggs is right.
I do not for a single second believe that everything that Joe Bloggs has ever desired to pursue his academic studies is available online.
If you get your books early, you’re sorted for your essay, but you get fined as a punishment for being conscientious.
Leave it till the last couple of days to get the books you need, and you can’t get them because somebody with more foresight than you has already got the books. Therefore, you rejoice in the fact that they get fined.
The lazy boys will always admire the system.
Joe Bloggs
March 27, 2011 at 21:43
I really haven’t had to borrow any books. Maybe i’m a lucky studying what i do, as 95% of the people on my course have never borrowed a book from the library for their studies. The few that have, very rarely borrow a book.
“you get fined as a punishment for being conscientious.” – really? Or do you get fined for acting like a spoilt brat that doesn’t know how to share?
“Leave it till the last couple of days to get the books you need, and you can’t get them because somebody with more foresight than you has already got the books. Therefore, you rejoice in the fact that they get fined.” – Who said anything about people complaining that they cant get the books because they left it too late before a deadline? I thought we were talking about the selfish pricks that should have returned books days/weeks ago and still have them. Then they have the cheek to complain that they have to pay large fines.
“The lazy boys will always admire the system.” – If your referring to me. You couldn’t be any more wrong!
Joe Bloggs
March 26, 2011 at 01:01
You’ve also got to remember that the university is a business. If they let people off with library fines to graduate, they will lose a lot of money. If the people never pay the fines, they cant be taken to court because the fine that each person has is alot smaller than the price it would cost to take everyone to court would therefore force the university to make a massive loss. The income of the unversity isn’t off library fines and shouldn’t be either, as it is a way to get everyone to play fair.
To combat this, what would the university do? Get people to pay a deposit of a few hundreds of pounds before they can borrow the books to ensure that they return them and don’t run off without paying any library fines? I’m sure everyone would be happy with that!!
Paying off the library fines before a student can graduate is the only way to ensure that the fines are paid. Simple.
Gemma-Louise
March 26, 2011 at 15:00
No where in the article does it talk about students wanting to graduate without paying their fines. It merely references that some haven’t been allowed to graduate in the past.
If you think everyone that tries to fight extortionate library fines -the worst in the country- is an ‘idiot’ then you are a seriously misguided individual. No one is saying there shouldn’t be library fines- everyone understands that. We’re saying they should be more in line with a students budget. Most can’t afford to keep on paying off £30 fines when fines mount for even stupid reasons such as someone has a recalled a book someone has only had for two days instead of the promised seven and therefore, can’t return it yet.
If you want to understand fair then look back to Issue 15 of LS and see the VC’s expenses expose and tell me is it fair for him to stay in 5 star hotels whilst students have to pay extortionate library fines on top of everything else. We’re all at university Joe, thus have some intelligence- so we can all probably appreciate that it’s ‘business’. Yet ‘business’ isn’t fair and that’s what LS is trying to change somehow and give a voice to the student body. So get off your high horse.
Sweet Tooth Jimmy
March 26, 2011 at 15:31
Yep – I agree with what Gemma-Louise is saying here.
Nobody is proposing absolutely abolishing the fining system. But, there clearly MUST be something too extreme in the way that the University of Leeds library works, given its position as top of the library fines league for the fourth year in a row.
I suggest that the University investigates the way in which other Universities police their libraries, as an institution such as Manchester with a higher student population but lower total library fines is presumably running a more reasonable system.
Another technical way in which the library tricks students, is that it doesn’t allow them to see their total amount of fines on the ‘personal record’ section of the library homepage until all overdue books have been returned. Thus, it may tell you that you owe £20 while your books are totting up fines, and only when you’ve returned the books does this figure electronically change, revealing that you in fact owe more. I believe that you should be able to see this total figure increasing as your individual fines increase, so that you are presented with an exact figure of how much you owe.
Joe Bloggs
March 27, 2011 at 21:54
“Nobody is proposing absolutely abolishing the fining system.” – If they lower the level of the fines, then it would be a step backwards. People would end up caring less about returning books on time and therefore the system would break down.
You say that library ‘tricks’ students in the way it displays fines. It doesn’t take much effort to check one addition webpage nor does it take a genius to add a few simple numbers together.
Joe Bloggs
March 27, 2011 at 21:53
“No where in the article does it talk about students wanting to graduate without paying their fines.” – Neither did i but i was reffering to…
“Leeds Student can reveal that in that meeting Elliot will campaign for a ‘library fine amnesty day,’ where all current library fines are
cleared.”
“everyone that tries to fight extortionate library fines -the worst in the country” – Where in the article does it mention that the library fines at this university are the most severe? It only states that the university collects money from the highest number of library fines. Ie. we have the highest number of selfish brats that cant return a book on time.
“We’re saying they should be more in line with a students budget” – What product does anyone sell that is in the student price range? Answer, absolutely nothing. The occasional shop giving 10% off, is only reducing an extortionate priced product, to a slightly less extortionate price.
“Most can’t afford to keep on paying off £30 fines” – Then they should return books on time.
“someone has a recalled a book someone has only had for two days instead of the promised seven and therefore, can’t return it yet.” – You do realise that when someone recalls a book, you are able to continue borrowing the book until the agreed loan time is over without getting a fine.
“look back to Issue 15 of LS and see the VC’s expenses expose and tell me is it fair for him to stay in 5 star hotels ” – I’ve already read that article, i think its perfectly fine. Remember that the university is a business!! The higher up the greasy pole you are, the nicer the benefits are.
“We’re all at university Joe, thus have some intelligence” – You would hope that this was the case! Unfortunately not, i’ve met some real idiots whilst i’ve been at university. Thank god the fees are increasing to help filter out some of these people.
“So get off your high horse.” – I don’t have a horse and if i did i wouldn’t be on it! Its just common sense that this article is plain stupid!
Simon Garfunkel
March 27, 2011 at 23:57
Joe – if you’re seriously suggesting that students at Leeds have a particular problem with returning books, compared to other students from other Universities, then you’re the idiot. I’ve read the article 3 times now and I still can’t find a single sentence that argues that either library fines are too much, should be reduced or even banned – it merely states the bare facts of the story. Whether you agree with the University of Leeds’ library fine system or not – the fact that it collects the most in the entire country, despite not having the most students, is a news story. If you want a debate then fine, but get you’re facts straight – not once does the article give a view on the story.
Joe Bloggs
March 28, 2011 at 00:39
“Elliot said: “Hard working students are being unfairly ripped-off by a library system that collects far too much.
“Whilst I accept that libraries should be able to fine students who don’t bring books back on time, the fine should be proportionate and capped and the University just seems to be on a runaway.”” – How does that not state that the members of the Student Executive want the fines to be reduced?
“Two years after Leeds Student first revealed that the University was collecting the highest number of library fines in the country, Leeds is still leading the way for the fourth year running.” – The key words are “highest number of” Ie. the quantity of fines not the magnitude of them. Idiot! I’ve already spelled this out earlier today!
“If you want a debate then fine, but get you’re facts straight – not once does the article give a view on the story.” – My facts are clearly straight. Its strange how it doesn’t give any opinions from people/students that like the magnitude of the fines or want them increased (like myself). Nor does it give any positive views on the fines……….So it seems that the author has illustrated his view on the topic with the way that he has written the article.
Sweet Tooth Jimmy
March 28, 2011 at 22:15
Congratulations on the 100 percents, Bloggsy. and the girlfriend…
Sweet Tooth Jimmy
March 28, 2011 at 01:01
Bloggsy, my lad. if you don’t mind me asking, what course do you actually study?
I’d be amazed to know what course exists that requires no books to be borrowed from the library.
Also, considering that you claim to have never borrowed a book from the library, I don’t think that you have the experience to enter into this debate with the authority you seem to be assuming. I also don’t see why you would care in the slightest, as the issue apparently does not affect you one iota.
If you began to borrow from the library, you would see how unmanageable to system is. As someone who doesn’t use the library, its easy enough for you to cast judgement upon the people that do.
Joe Bloggs
March 28, 2011 at 19:13
Just because i don’t borrow books for my study, doesn’t mean that i don’t borrow books in areas of interest or for my girlfriends study. It is rather silly to assume……….
Nor does it mean that i do not listen to friends and the girlfriend complain about morons that cant return books.
My area of study is in engineering. I do a variety of engineering and not one of the modules (across schools) in the years that i’ve studied at this university require me to pick up a book. Don’t get me wrong, i could pick up a book for my studies but i definitely don’t require them as i’m coming out with firsts and even the occasional 100% mark. To say that i’m not the most intelligent or witty person out there, it definitely shows that i’m not getting these marks from being a smart arse.
The issue doesn’t effect me directly one single bit. Some peoples stupid ignorant attitudes just p**s me off. This article and some of the responses are definitely in that class of attitudes.
Anyway, i’ve said my piece and now i’m leaving this discussion.
Jesse
March 29, 2011 at 19:11
There’s a facebook group I made a while ago about library fines, with info on how to lodge a complaint: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=65467715619
We should be more specific, target not ALL library fines, but those for books that are ‘late’ but not needed by anyone else and the student just forgot to re-new (i.e. click button on the website) in time. Books should only be fine-ably late if someone has requested it.
Senior lecturer
March 30, 2011 at 01:24
@ Joe Bloggs
“i’ve met some real idiots whilst i’ve been at university. Thank god the fees are increasing to help filter out some of these people.”
You may be getting firsts in your degree but it seems you have a lot to learn about life. If you think higher fees are going to filter out ‘idiot’ students then you’re very wrong. Some of the most intelligent and best people i’ve met and taught at university come from famillies that can barely afford to pay for university expenses now let alone when it becomes £9,000.
Education is not bestowed on only those who can afford £9,000 per anum- all higher fees will do is alienate smart and capable students and fill university with the upper-class filled utopia you wish for. Thus, not necessarily with the brightest.
So before you start brandishing the ‘idiot’ word around you should take a look at yourself and re-address your opinions. Try spending a little more time in the library because you have a lot of maturing and learning to do. You should be ashamed of yourself and your comments.
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